tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News May 17, 2019 10:00am-11:01am BST
hello. it's friday, it's ten o'clock, i'm joanna gosling. the parents of four young people who have killed themselves tell us they want the nhs to stop prescribing acne drug roaccutane because of the side effects some users report. i had the depression and i had the sexual dysfunction, i had psychosis, psychotic symptoms, suicidal thoughts, you know, i had high hopes, you know, of getting a career and completing uni and now i'm just kind of at home, yeah, and it's not good. most people have a positive experience on the drug, with many saying it helps their mental health by improving their acne. we'll be hearing both perspectives. what next for brexit? after six weeks, the talks
between labour and the conservatives aimed at reaching a compromise deal are to stop, despite not reaching any agreement. taiwan's parliament has voted to legalise same—sex marriage — a first for a region where gay rights have often lagged behind. hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. we've already had lots of tweets and emails about our report on the acne drug roaccutane. david on twitter: "my son suffered from very bad acne and was at his lowest ebb when he was prescribed these drugs. six months later he was acne—free and a different person, they literally changed his life and i'm not sure what we would have done without them. fortunately there were no side effects." robert on e—mail: "my son committed suicide as the direct result of taking this drug for acne.
many die because of this drug and it is still being used. it is a killer, it must be banned immediately. " kristen on twitter: "i had roaccutane after years of suffering acne on my face, neck, shoulders and back. i would argue that it is the psychological impact of acne that was the root cause of my confidence issues, depression and low esteem. people are cruel! roaccutane helped me and gave me my life back." melvin on e—mail: "my son committed suicide in 2012 after 10 years of hell from taking roaccutane. he suffered so many side effects and could not find any help or solution to this. in a letter he left us he stated, "i use to love my life, but after taking roaccutane it has left my life in tatters." this is a terrible drug. an independent inquiry should be launched immediately and roaccutane should be suspended/banned!" thank you for those comments. do get
in touch if you had experience of company macro. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about — use the hashtag #victorialive. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you — and maybe want to take part in the programme — please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. annita has the news. thank you, good morning. the parents of four young people who have killed themselves have told this programme they want some acne drugs to stop being prescribed. the department of health has asked the health watchdog nice to develop new guidelines on the management of acne by 2021. campaigners say it's an opportunity to stop the use of the drug which some young people claim has left them unable to have sex years after they have stopped taking it. the vast majority of users take the drugs without problems. cross—party talks between the government and labour to find a compromise over brexit are set to end without reaching an agreement. the parties‘ negotiating teams have been meeting for six weeks to try to break the deadlock. it comes as theresa may has promised to set a timetable to leave downing street following the next
brexit vote in june. 100 people have been stabbed to death in the uk so far this year, according to bbc research. figures obtained from police forces across the country show the largest group of victims are men in their 20s. in 95 of the 100 cases someone has been arrested. more than two—thirds of lgbt people say they've been sexually harassed at work, but most don't report it, according to a new report. the report by the tuc is believed to be the first major study into lesbian, gay, bisexual and tra nsgender people being sexually harassed at work in great britain. the government says it is starting a consultation on harassment, and employers must understand their legal responsibilities. british doctors have successfully used keyhole surgery to treat a baby boy with spina bifida inside the womb for the first time. the team from king's college hospital, in london, say the procedure isn't a cure, but improves the baby's future chances of walking
and is saferfor the mother than invasive surgery. the mother of saffie roussos, the youngest of the 22 people killed in the manchester arena attack, have spoken of her struggle two years on. lisa roussos was badly injured in the attack but, after extensive surgery and rehabilitation, she is preparing to walk the route of the great manchester run this weekend — to support a charity she launched with her husband to help victims of terrorism. i know it's going to be emotional, not just for me, for all of us that's walking. but it's a good thing, and we need — we need it, don't we? something good's got to come out of something so awful. it's got to. one of australian rugby's biggest stars, israel folau, has been sacked over a social media post which said that "hell awaits" gay people.
folau was suspended last month over the post and has now been found to have committed a "high level breach of the players‘ code of conduct". he has three days to appeal. bus tickets need to be cheaper and easier to buy using contactless and smartphones to attract young people, according to the uk transport watchdog. despite being the biggest users of buses, 16 to 18—year—olds are also the least satisfied, transport focus found. the watchdog also recommended companies should install wi—fi and usb charging points on board to encourage younger people to travel on buses. that's a summary of our main news so far today. thank you. the parents of four young people who have killed themselves have told this programme they want the acne drug roaccutane to stop being prescribed. the department of health has asked the health watchdog nice to develop new guidelines on the management of acne by 2021.
campaigners say it's an opportunity to stop the use of the drug which some young people say has left them unable to have sex years after they have stopped taking it. the majority of those who take the drug have a positive experience, with users saying that clearing up their acne has helped their mental health. 0ur reporterjo mcdermott has more. my skin has never looked better, this is the best skin i've ever had in my life. there is an acne drug that's been around for 36 years, that is used by around 30,000 people a year in the uk. it's very effective at getting rid of acne. and most people react well to it. but away from the shiny success stories, there are young people living with sometimes life—changing symptoms. i had depression and i had sexual dysfunction, i had psychosis, psychotic symptoms, suicidal thoughts, it was just pretty overwhelming. itjust seems impossible to imagine that there is anyjustification
for prescribing a drug like that. isotretinoin is most commonly marketed under the name roaccutane in the uk. it's meant to be used as the last resort treatment for patients with severe acne, who've tried everything else. there is a long list of 55 possible side—effects. over the years, the patient information leaflet that comes with the drug has been updated. in 1998, warnings came in about depression and other psychiatric symptoms. derekjones‘ son, jesse, had two courses of roaccutane. he sings. jesse was a very fun loving, very creative, artistic... he loved to play guitar, piano, drums... jesse's family got an insight into what he was battling with when he went missing.
this is the letter that the police found onjesse‘s computer when he was... when he was missing. it's an e—mail saved in his draft folder. "hello, mum and dad. my depressed state at the moment is nothing like i've experienced before. roaccutane seems to have changed the way my mind and body works in a big way. i didn't know what had caused my decreased interest in the opposite sex. the people who have been affected by roaccutane in this way are just swept under the carpet. with little hope of treatment. we know that he told his gp about the sexual side effects and the gp had prescribed him viagra. aged? at age 24. i mean, those side effects clearly had a significant effect onjesse. and would have contributed to him
taking his own life. a new warning was added two years ago, since jesse's death, to say some people will be affected by problems getting or maintaining an erection, and lower libido. the drug regulator, the nmra, says in sa years, it's received 105 reports of the side—effects. the way acne makes you feel, is like you feel so miserable and so invisible all at the same time and itjust makes you feel really like the lowest version of yourself, you just feel really insecure. so, this video is going to be exactly that... the majority of people, like sarah, who have talked about her skin, will have a positive experience with either no side—effects orjust minor ones. i would go as far as to say it's a wonder drug, it's completely transformed my life, i feel so much happier and confident in my own skin. today, i'm sitting here without foundation and that's honestly something i could never even have dreamed of doing.
come on, cory. but there are cases of people living lives blighted by depression and sexual problems which they blame on the drug, years after they stopped taking it. the acne that i had, it wasn't very severe, it was just mild but it was enough to sort of think, yeah, i wouldn't mind getting rid of this, you know? ed henthorn took roaccutane in 2014. he quickly started getting side—effects. when did you realise there was a change in your sex drive? erm, probably into the third week. i wasn't thinking about girls. as much. which, i used to think about girls, you know, as any young man, 19—year—old, i was at the time, my feelings, you know, thoughts, just went away. it kind of faded away and it was just... yeah. and that, with physical erection problems, yeah, erectile dysfunction,
so that's why i decided to stop it. although ed stopped taking the drug, the side—effects have carried on. five years now, i've been having these symptoms and they've not gone away. i would not have taken it if i had known that it could affect sexual function, i wouldn't have taken it. professor david healy has studied the effects of isotretinoin, or roaccutane, as it's commonly known. there are lots of drugs, 40 or 50 drugs that can interfere with your ability to make love, from an antibiotic to an antidepressant to a drug for hair loss. what's different about this drug is how serious the problem can be and how long the problem can be. so i think it's very, very important that the label makes it clear that these problems can be enduring and also makes it clear that they may only appear after you stop taking the drug.
and it's very, very important that people know that this has been caused by the drug, that this is not a mental problem of some sort in the mind of the person who has been put on the drug. the patient information leaflet says there is a 1 in 1,000 chance of developing depression. and a 1 in 10,000 chance of getting suicidal thoughts and signs of psychosis. i had the depression and i had the sexual dysfunction, i had psychosis, psychotic symptoms, suicidal thoughts, you know, i had high hopes, you know, of getting a career and completing uni and now i'm just kind of at home, yeah, and it's not good. how does it make you feel to know that there are still young people going through exactly the same side—effects? it makes me feel sick. i feel ashamed. it's just disgusting that these
people are being subjected to this, this shouldn't still be happening. it's just too dangerous. a minority get these terrible, terrible side effects that affect them for the rest of their lives. a minority take their own lives. should we just ignore this minority group? i think the risks are just too high. roche says millions of patients worldwide have benefited from taking roaccutane but like most medications, it can have side effects, which is why patients should be monitored closely. the company says studies have not identified a clear increase in the risk of psychiatric disorders in people who take isotretinoin. compared to those who don't. i just want this drug off the market and if the nice review gets close to that, then that'll be a victory. we can speak now to derek
and patsyjones, who say their son took roaccutane and struggled with depression and sexual dysfunction before he killed himself. derek was in the film you just saw. also here are david healy, who is a professor of psychiatry and has studied the effects of roaccutane, and drjuber hafiji, who is a consultant dermatologist and regularly prescribes roaccutane. he's appearing in his own right and not representing any professional bodies. john evans was part of the roaccutane trials in the early 1980s and was successfully treated by the drug. he's got two sons who also take it, again successfully. welcome to all of you. derek. you are well aware there are many success are well aware there are many success stories from people who have taken success stories from people who have ta ken roaccutane and success stories from people who have taken roaccutane and it has changed their lives in so many positive ways because of the issues they had around acne full stop you feel so strongly that it shouldn't be available for anybody? in 2018 there we re available for anybody? in 2018 there were 17... surrey, seven recorded deaths. seven suicides after taking
roaccutane. do we ignore those suicides? do we ignore the suicide of my son in 2011? 0k, there are many success. . . of my son in 2011? 0k, there are many success... i of my son in 2011? 0k, there are many success... i am of my son in 2011? 0k, there are many success... i am not saying the drug does not work. i know the drug works and it does cure acne, but nevertheless a significant number of people get the very serious side effects, and do we risk giving young men, women, a drug that can cause them serious sexual side effects, cause them to be depressed and psychotic? is it worth that risk? personally, i don't think it is. one death is one too many. let alone seven in 2018. that'sjust death is one too many. let alone seven in 2018. that's just reported deaths. those i just seven in 2018. that's just reported deaths. those ijust suicides that have been reported to the nmra. there are probably others that it isn't even known whether they were taking roaccutane aware that there
depression caused it. obviously you are absolutely convinced that it is roaccutane that caused your son to ta ke roaccutane that caused your son to take his life and i know you've had the letter that was discovered by police on his computer that makes clear that that's how he felt, that's what he believed. it wasn't brought up as a factor, not considered a factor in his death in the inquest. why? because the inquest was a bit of a whitewash. what we had was a narrative verdict, which basically theyjust what we had was a narrative verdict, which basically they just told the story of what had happened. they didn't include this e—mail that the police found or the text that he sent to his friend on the night that he disappeared, and the text he sent to his friend indicated that he had had enough. and did he specifically mention roaccutane? now, he didn't mention roaccutane? now, he didn't
mention that or taking his own life. 0n the night he went missing, the night he probably died, he clearly was saying to his friend, itjust isn't worth it. i can't get over my floors, there is no future for me. it just isn't worth floors, there is no future for me. itjust isn't worth it. that's what he was indicating to his friend on the night he went missing. and i believe that he had a psychotic moment. david, what is the evidence ofa link moment. david, what is the evidence of a link between roaccutane and suicidal feelings and deaths as a result of taking the drug? the evidence is... well, i've got 58 at the last count cases of people who have been put on roaccutane and have lost the ability to make love afterwards. 0ne lost the ability to make love afterwards. one of them is ed, i've seefi afterwards. one of them is ed, i've seen him and one of the things that would be good to bring out is that he has been awfully courageous coming out and saying, look, this
has happened to me, because there are literally hundreds of people in the uk who between roaccutane and ssris and drugs for hair loss lose the ability to make love for decades if not ever. a lot of people keep quiet, don't tell their doctors or friends or family. it's a thing that makes people very vulnerable. for ed to come out and talk about these issues, crucially important, it transforms the whole thing from hearsay into a real thing. transforms the whole thing from hearsay into a realthing. derek and patsy, for your son, at that point, sexual dysfunction was not listed as a potential side effect. know, but he had gone to his doctor, his gp, and told the gp that he was having problems with... he had a girlfriend at the time. they were just about to live together so he went to his gp and the gp prescribed him viagra.
24—year—old boy on viagra you know. that's not imaginary, that's real. just to add to that, while the label on the drug does now say it can cause problems, interfere with your ability to make love, what it doesn't say is that this may only happen after you stop the drug and can endure for decades afterwards. this puts a lot of people, when they realise after the drug, that things won't come back to normal, this is when people think about harming themselves. it's caused me a problem re ce ntly themselves. it's caused me a problem recently with one or two of my patients which it will be awfully interesting to see what listeners to the programme think. 0ne interesting to see what listeners to the programme think. one of my patients came to me and said, i have been to dignity —— dignitas, young man in his late 205, and been to dignity —— dignita5, young man in his late 205, and the interesting thing he found out about the m3 macro application is that they have had lots of young people with this problem. i don't know what
to say to him —— he went to dignita5. to say to him —— he went to dignitas. can ijust say, it isn't just young men. young women suffer, also a. and it can be all ages. doctor, i know you are not here to defend roaccutane but to talk around the prescription of it and what you see the prescription of it and what you see with your patients. how frequently are you prescribing roaccutane? can i extend my sincere condolences to derek and patsy for their loss? condolences to derek and patsy for theirl055? i condolences to derek and patsy for their loss? i have three children of my own and i can't imagine how you mu5t my own and i can't imagine how you must feel. my sincere condolences. in terms of the roaccutane prescribing, there is not a week that goes by as a dermatologist that i don't prescribe this medication. acne is a chronic inflammatory skin condition. it has significant impacts psychologically and socially
and physically, leaving individuals with permanent scarring and it is very effective. in experienced hands, it is a very safe treatment, providing the patient is monitored closely with regular supervision and blood tests at intervals. do you get patients coming back saying, i'm getting suicidal thoughts, feeling depressed? i've been in practice for ten years now and i've probably had a handful of patients who have been a handful of patients who have been a bit more anxious, suffered a low mood. and do you warn everybody that they need to look out for... absolutely. i would like to think in being a uk trained dermatologist, that most dermatologists, if not all, obtain true informed consent from individuals who are embarking ona from individuals who are embarking on a route of going down this, taking this medication, because we
don'tjust hand taking this medication, because we don't just hand it taking this medication, because we don'tjust hand it out. often patients are given the information leaflets, blood tests are done, they go away, think about it, and come back and we go through... can'tjust get it through a gp? no, because of the reasons derek and patsy have mentioned about the potential side effects. derek and patsy, jesse was 24, so he didn't need to be talking to you about his medical issues if he chose not to, but were you aware at all about whether he was told, how much he was told and how much monitoring there was? we were... we don't think he was given a lot of information when he was first prescribed the drug. we're pretty sui’e prescribed the drug. we're pretty sure about that. he was first prescribed it in 2005 and then he took a second course in 2009 and it was during the second course in 2009 that the really bad side effects kicked in and, although he wasn't really telling us, we could see what had happened to him. how did he
change, what did you see? he just lost interest in things. he was... you saw on the piece, he was a musician, a singer. this is something that he loved doing. suddenly he stopped doing all these things. you know, all the things he loved and enjoyed doing, he stopped doing and he became... 0h, he became very paranoid. if he thought i was staring at him, he would go crazy and get upset and you know, cry sometimes. he used to say it was like walking on egg shells and you had to be careful what you said to him. and that happens, you know, directly during the period he was taking the second course of roaccutane. we will bring in john. as we've mentioned, there are many people who take it and i know that you acknowledge it and it absolutely doesn't detract, obviously, from what you two have been through,
which isjust what you two have been through, which is just horrendous, what you two have been through, which isjust horrendous, obviously, but let's bring in john. which isjust horrendous, obviously, but let's bring injohn. you were one of the first who trialled roaccutane and since then, too macro of your sons have taken it successfully. tell us what your thoughts and feelings are on roaccutane. i've heard reports of this over the years and really must rush to the defence of roaccutane. i thoroughly sympathise with the poor people who suffered, whose relatives have suffered, but my personal perspective is that the only side effect i experienced was complete ivy effect i experienced was complete joy that i was cleared of this horrible condition that reduced my self—esteem incredibly. in fact, that i'm talking about it today is quite extraordinary. the word acne
isa quite extraordinary. the word acne is a word i've not been able to speak out loud for years and i'm 58! it had a terrible effect on me and then whenl it had a terrible effect on me and then when i was cured of it, my prospects improved beyond all recognition and then when i saw my owfi sofis recognition and then when i saw my own sons develop the condition, i was ve i’y own sons develop the condition, i was very worried for them, but likewise it was successful for them, as well, and they are now both in successful careers, they are still young men and i couldn't be happier for them. for anybody that has been fortu nate for them. for anybody that has been fortunate enough never to experience having any issues with their skin or acne, they might say, oh, its having any issues with their skin or acne, they might say, oh, it'sjust some spots. what's the big problem? tell people watching at home... you've obviously said it had a huge impact on your life, having acne, explain why. of course, i guess i started seeing signs as young as 12
and 13 and then by 17 it was all ovei’ and 13 and then by 17 it was all over my shoulders, my neck, my face. and of course, when you are changing for sports at school, i would sit at the back of the changing room trying to hide my condition from the other lads. i remember one year, christmas, we were all going to go out for a drink. the whole gang. and i developed this hideous lesion on my chin and ijust could not go out andl my chin and ijust could not go out and i spent the entire christmas holidays at home. and one of your guests spoke about their son pushing them away and asking if they were staring at them. i was an awful son. i suffered these dreadful crises of confidence and i was abrupt and rude to my parents and i had suicidal
thoughts, which i have never shared, actually, until this very moment! sorry, it was this when you are on roaccutane or prior? prior. absolutely prior. it destroyed myself... not destroyed. i'm possibly over egging it but i was a very self—conscious young chap, terrible levels of low self esteem. but here i am now, cured of it and many years later and thank god i was. what do you think when you hear that, derek and patsy? obviously mental health issues can arise for kids who have acne and for many it's an absolute godsend when they get to ta ke an absolute godsend when they get to take roaccutane. i think he's one of the lucky ones. unfortunately, our son is in the minority of people who ta ke son is in the minority of people who take roaccutane, who take their own
lives. you know, he isn't alone. there is jack, aged 16. he took his own life in 2012. elliot watson...|j can own life in 2012. elliot watson...” can see, own life in 2012. elliot watson...” can see, you own life in 2012. elliot watson...” can see, you have own life in 2012. elliot watson...” can see, you have a own life in 2012. elliot watson...” can see, you have a list. jack silcox... can see, you have a list. jack silcox. .. every can see, you have a list. jack silcox... every time can see, you have a list. jack silcox. .. every time something happens you obviously feel it personally and it's not something that you can just ignore it. of course, of course! nice i doing a review of treatments and our understanding was that they were going to review the relative safety of isotretinoin, but that now doesn't seem to be the case. we are out of time but a quick final point. you can give this drug as you can give the ssris and it can make them feel suicidal and inhibit their ability to make love. it can make
them suicidal and we are talking about people with acne being given the drug and becoming suicidal. it gets confusing for people. we could ta ke gets confusing for people. we could take you and give you roaccutane and you could become suicidal and lose the ability to make love. it's a thing the drug in its own right candy. the issue is, people may have to take it but they need to know there is this risk and take on the risk willingly if they are actually going to use it. thank you all very much. thank you. a spokesman for nice said... "we always consider the relative safety of drugs in our clinical guidelines and align our recommendations with the medicines and health care products regulatory agency or mhra safety advice." the mhra said... "patient safety is our highest priority and our role, as regulator, is to make sure the medicines you and your family take are safe and effective." "the mhra has kept the safety of roaccutane under close review since it was licensed in the uk in 1983." "in the uk, the prescribing of isotretinoin has always been restricted and must be prescribed
by, or under the supervision of, a consultant dermatologist who has experience and a full understanding of the risks and monitoring requirements associated with isotretinoin." we have been inundated with comments from you at home. mark on twitter, "this medicine helped me more than any other product ever has." "everything can have side effects, but any risk of those was worth it to help my skin and therefore my mental health." sam on email, "the most prevalent side effect of accutane is permanent sexual dysfunction but no—one is talking about it because the victims are mostly young and ashamed." "they are traumatised and hopeless and we need to consider if this is why so many kids take their own lives post the drug." ollie on twitter, "i was prescribed this when i was 20." "but with the anxiety, self consciousness and unhappiness that serious acne brings, i believe the doctor saw it as a last resort and the lesser of two evils." liz on facebook, "i took roaccutane twice for my acne in 1998." "i can honestly say that it saved my life."
"my acne made me feel suicidal." "i'm very sorry for those that have suffered but it also helps those who feel they can't live as they are." william on twitter, "i took roaccutane when i was 18 for a period of six months." "during the last couple of months on the drug, i started suffering symptoms associated with type—1 diabetes and i was subsequently diagnosed after a hospital admission." "research suggests this has happened to others. " thank you for those comments, do keep sending us your thoughts. and if you've been affected by any of the issues we've been discussing, help is available via bbc actionline. go to bbc.co.uk/actionline or call 0800 066 066 — lines are open 24 hours a day and all calls are free. still to come — smiles and some tearful embraces outside parliament as taiwan legalises same—sex marriage. we'll hearfrom some of those affected. and as states in america
move to pass the most restrictive abortion laws in decades, we'll hearfrom a woman in one of the affected states who fell pregnant when she was raped as a 12—year—old. now, the bbc understands that talks between the government and labour to try to come up with a brexit deal are about to end without an agreement. the discussions have been going on for a month and a half, but there have been growing indications that they aren't making any progress. yesterday theresa may agreed to set a timetable for her to step down as prime minister, after the next commons vote on brexit in a few weeks' time. our political correspondent jonathan blake is at westminster. i ,jonathan, , jonathan, they are over, ,jonathan, they are over, are , jonathan, they are over, are they? it does seem that way this morning, no official word yet, but after weeks of tilting between ministers and their labour counterparts, a pi’ocess and their labour counterparts, a process that was, we were told,
serious and genuine, although particularly difficult, it is now coming to an end, or at least morphing into a very different type of discussion about a procedural pi’ocess of discussion about a procedural process of how the house of commons may go about voting on different options, or voting for or against government legislation to enact the brexit deal or not. and it has not come as a huge surprise, i have to say, because although there was seriousness on both sides, an agreement in fact over large areas of policy between the government and labour, there was always a political reality which at some point was going to take in, both sides had you not only agree a deal but bring their parties with them, and we have seen time and again labour mps putting pressure onjeremy corbyn to make sure that any further public vote, a confirmatory referendum, as they are calling it, should be part of any deal, and uneasiness on the labour side that any deal could be
undone when a new prime minister steps in to theresa may's shoes. add to that deep unease on the conservative side of talking to labour, let alone doing a deal which could see the uk staying in a customs union with the eu, and it was looking very difficult for both sides to bring their tribes with them, if you like. so no, not much life left in the talks between labour and the government after six weeks of at times tortuous discussions between the two sides. so if the two leaders can't corral the troops, what are the hopes of commons votes actually delivering any sort of majority? dug up the numbers haven't changed, frankly. we heard from theresa may yesterday saying that the house of commons will get a chance to vote on a withdrawal agreement fail, the bit of legislation that enacts the deal that she struck with the eu, in the
first full week ofjune. now, that might bea first full week ofjune. now, that might be a slightly different vote toa might be a slightly different vote to a straight yes or no on her deal, but it is effectively the same deal, and mps will not support the legislation if they don't support her deal, so still a mountain to climb for the prime minister, yes, time for some to change their minds, but at the moment the numbers don't look good for her, and she set out a timetable yesterday, or if you like a timetable for a timetable, if that vote, well, whichever way it goes, she will set a timetable for her departure, which has increased the speculation about who might take over from speculation about who might take overfrom her, the leadership contest has unofficially been under way for a few weeks, we heard from borisjohnson way for a few weeks, we heard from boris johnson yesterday that, absolutely, he will be throwing his hat into the ring, and we caught up with him earlier on where u nfortu nately with him earlier on where unfortunately he did not have a huge amount to say this morning. mrjohnson, are you going to be standing for the tory
leadership, then? do you think you're too divisive a character to be tory leader? when do you think theresa may should stand down, mrjohnson? well, whether he is too divisive a character, the question is an important one, because it will be tory mps who want to take the first stage of the process to whittle the candidates down to two, and then they conservative party membership across the country who will decide the ultimate winner. i think it is fairto the ultimate winner. i think it is fair to say that borisjohnson will probably command more support among the grassroots membership than he would in parliament, but we will see. would in parliament, but we will see. another possible contender, michael gove, the environment secretary, he was asked this morning what happens now. do you want the topjob? hello, good morning. the most important thing we all need to do is focus on the fact that the government are bringing forward the bill which will enable us to leave
the european union, 17.4 million people voted to leave the eu, so all parliamentarians must now focus on making sure that we honour that mandate and deliver on the result of the referendum and leave the european union. michael gove not being drawn much of the leadership talk there, preferring to focus on the huge task of getting the withdrawal agreement bill, effectively theresa may's brexit deal, through parliament somehow. labourmp deal, through parliament somehow. labour mp stephen kinnock joins deal, through parliament somehow. labour mp stephen kinnockjoins us from port talbot, welcome, it looks like these talks are over, no deal, it has been anticipated, a failure of leadership on both sides? well, what i hope is that the reason they have collapsed isn't that our site has tried to insist on putting a second referendum into the talks, because i have always said that would be too much for the conservatives to bear, and the talks would not go forward on that basis, soi would not go forward on that basis, so i hope the second referendum has
not torpedoed the talks. i also think we are now heading it, almost inevitably, to crashing out of the european union with no deal at all on the 31st of october, because on thursday nigel farage's paddy is clearly going to do very well, the conservatives will go into meltdown, they will become a no—deal party, they will become a no—deal party, they will become a no—deal party, they will elect either dominic rabb, borisjohnson or michael gove as lady, and they will push the country into no—deal in october, which i think it is potentially catastrophic for the british economy. that is a failure of leadership by both of the main parties, isn't it? both theresa may and jericho have said that we should not leave without a deal. yeah, going into negotiations, you can't keep imposing red lines. the conservatives, i think, can't keep imposing red lines. the conservatives, ithink, could can't keep imposing red lines. the conservatives, i think, could have been more flexible on agreeing to a form of customs union or customs arrangement, and colleagues on my side, i hope, were not insisting on
having a referendum and there is a condition, we know that the prime minister was never going to weigh pei’ minister was never going to weigh per mps for that. so yes, if you end up per mps for that. so yes, if you end up imposing red lines which never make a negotiation were, i think thatis make a negotiation were, i think that is a failure of leadership. where does politics go from here? the old tribes are failing to deal with the situation we are in now, does the need to be a kind of shake—up of who sits where depending on their views on brexit primarily? well, i really hope we can get away from single issue politics. we need politics which deals with public services, with the economy, with education, the climate crisis. if we arejust dominated by education, the climate crisis. if we are just dominated by one single issue, that opens the door to populists and extremists, and i think that is very dangerous. indeed, that is why we need to deliver a deal which gets us out of the european union but protect the economy. i have always felt that
they no plus option, the aa, is the best way to do that, it respects the result of the referendum... sorry to interrupt, i know you are saying what you want, but it says you are recognising the fact that a deal is, you think, almostjust not going to happen and we will leave without ideal? yeah, i think we are heading inevitably to a no deal outcome because dogmatists on each side have ended up beating the compromises, and democracy needs compromise in order to survive. stephen kinnock, thank you very much. i am just hearing that we are hoping to get a statement from jeremy corbyn any moment, here we go, i have got it, let me bring it up and read it out so that we can see why the talks have failed, whatjeremy corbyn is saying. he has written to the prime minister to inform the talks on finding a compromise agreement for leaving the eu have gone as far as i can due to the increasing weakness and instability of the government.
jeremy corbyn writes that as the conservative party moves toward selecting a new leader, the position of the government has become more u nsta ble of the government has become more unstable and its authority eroded, undermining confidence in the government's ability to deliver any compromise agreement. he notes that not infrequently proposals by your negotiating team have been contradicted by other members of the cabinet. the labour leader describes the talks as they tired and constructive but expresses disappointment that while there are areas where compromise has been possible, we have been unable to bridge important policy gaps between us. bridge important policy gaps between us. so no mention of the referendum that stephen kinnock was hoping was not the reason for the talks filing, but saying that he doesn't believe that the government could actually deliver any compromise agreement. so thatis deliver any compromise agreement. so that is the first word through from jeremy corbyn, confirming those talks are over, there is no agreement, so hold onto your hats again we will have to see what unfolds from here as we keep having
to watch and wait. taiwan's parliament has become the first in asia to legalise same sex marriage, following a vote this morning. in 2017, judges said denying gay couples the right to marry violated the island's constitution and gave parliament two years to pass the changes. there was a public backlash, and in a serres of referendums, the majority of voters rejected legalising same—sex marriage. the government pressed ahead anyway. three bills were voted on today, and it was the most progressive of the three which was passed. we can speak now tojennifer lu, an lgbt campaigner and social activist in taiwan, cindy su, who's in a lesbian relationship, and jerome taylor, who's the hong kong—taiwan bureau editorfor the news agency afp. welcome, all of you, thank you for joining us. jennifer, you have been campaigning for this for a long time, how are you feeling now that it has come to fruition? oh, i am extremely happy today, because we actually can get married to — next
week! and i think that can show, like, all of the effort and work is weighted, am very happy, taiwan has chosen the progressive route today. so will you get married?” chosen the progressive route today. so will you get married? i am actually not quite sure! but my wife andi actually not quite sure! but my wife and i had a ceremony three years ago, so we and i had a ceremony three years ago, so we will definitely choose a perfect day to do that. ok, well, thank you. cindy, what about you? how do you feel about this? we are extremely happy, we feel like we are ina dream, extremely happy, we feel like we are in a dream, and we hope we never wa ke in a dream, and we hope we never wake up! otherwise i can see a picture just over your shoulderm you and your partner, i assume, and a couple of kids, is that your family? yes, we have been together for nine years, we got married in canada in 2014, and we went on and had two kids, and today we can
finally pass the law and get married and give our kids the parental rights they deserve. and so will you do that? have you named a date already? yes, we will register, on the 24th, as soon as possible, so we can proceed with getting our pa re ntal can proceed with getting our parental rights for our children. jerome, taiwan is the first country in asia to allow same—sex marriages — how progressive is taiwan? in asia to allow same—sex marriages - how progressive is taiwan? well, i mean, this really is quite a landmark moment, not just for taiwan but for asia. i mean, landmark moment, not just for taiwan but forasia. i mean, historically taiwan in the last decade has made some quite significant leaps and bounds in terms of the lgbt community, representation and things like that but the issue does seriously divide the island. you know, it has one of the largest gay pride is every year, the cities themselves have thriving gay communities, support for gay
marriage is quite strong, particularly among young and urban taiwanese, but at the same time there is a lot of unease and opposition to same—sex marriage amongst older generations, particularly income alike, the rural heartlands as well, where during last yea r‘s heartlands as well, where during last year's referendum, about 70% voted against the idea of changing the definition of marriage to anything other than the marriage of anything other than the marriage of a man and a woman. so, jennifer, with a majority having voted against changing the definition of marriage, what difference do you think it will make for the lg bt what difference do you think it will make for the lgbt community in terms of perception and recognition? last year, the result of the referendum, the majority choosing to use the law to protect same—sex marriage as to get married, and so that is the reason why the government proposed the bill, according to the
referendum result, and also tried to review the requirement of the constitutional court's interpretation. so we can get married, but we cannot use the civil code that heterosexual couples used, we code that heterosexual couples used, we need to use a different law. but i know every country around the world, we have the same situation as once we can world, we have the same situation as once we can get married, people in the country will understand that same—sex marriage won't hurt anyone, and there will be more happiness and happy, like, stories around us, so people will respect us once you can see more people will respect us once you can see more and people will respect us once you can see more and more people will respect us once you can see more and more beautiful stories around you. cindy, taiwan is making history by being the first asian country to do this. obviously, we have been hearing that there is a vibrant gay community in taiwan, but is that one of your children there coming in, say hi! hi! yes, in terms
of being able to be openly out and acceptance, how have you found it?” think from last year's referendum, we think from last year's referendum, we realise that we still need to have a lot of conversation with the society, obviously we understand that society hasn't seen that many cases of lg bt that society hasn't seen that many cases of lgbt families, or lgbt... people coming out of the closet, but i think from now on, today onwards, people will start talking about this small, and they will see there are lg bt small, and they will see there are lgbt families small, and they will see there are lg bt families that small, and they will see there are lgbt families that exist already, andi lgbt families that exist already, and i hope the conversation will carry on until we can all live on this island, like, like anyone else. cindy, jennifer, jerome, thank you very much.
let's move on, we are now going to talk about... what is happening in the united states in terms of abortion. states across america are moving to pass the most restrictive abortion laws in decades. as state legislative sessions draw to a close in much of the country, experts say around 30 abortion laws have been passed. in april, indiana brought in a near total ban on the most common type of second—trimester abortion. then ohio passed a bill banning abortion in the very early weeks of pregnancy. and just this week, in alabama, a bill was signed off effectively banning terminations altogether. louisana and missouri are moving ahead with similar legislation. so why is this happening, and what will the impact be on women in america? let's speak now to shannon dingle, who fell pregnant when she was raped as a 12—year—old. shannon's in north carolina, where a federal court earlier this year struck down the state's ban on abortions after the 20th week of pregnancy. that bill is now stalled. she's waived her right to anonymity to speak out. welcome, shannon, thank you very
much forjoining us, tell us why it is that you want to speak out. i'm sorry, could you repeat that? why have you decided to waive your anonymity and speak out?” have you decided to waive your anonymity and speak out? i have been fairly open about my story in general. however, there is space i have not shared before now, but given what i am seeing, given all the debates that are going back and forth throughout my country about abortion, i realised that we are talking about ideas, we are treating stories and people as if they are props or objects in this debate, and we are props or objects in this debate, and we are not personalising the issue. and so i decided to put my story out there, including pictures of me at there, including pictures of me at the time and pictures now, my name and full identity, because i want us to shift to not playing political games but seeing each other as
people. now, you fell pregnant, but you actually lost the child as a result of a miscarriage. had you been contemplating abortion at all? i had been, buta been contemplating abortion at all? i had been, but a challenging thing at that time, i knew that girls who got pregnant were considered loose, and girls who had abortions were considered murderers, so i didn't feel like i had great options at that time. i would have loved to have had access to the internets, to social media, things that weren't available then, to be able to know, oh, there are places that i can go, there are other options for me. so i didn't get a chance to even really consider options, because i was so young and had so little access to things. you have said you want to personalise the discussion to come
at you now, put a face on when people are talking around these issues, what do you think about whether women should be allowed to have an abortion as a result of getting pregnant from rape?” have an abortion as a result of getting pregnant from rape? i think that every abortion decision needs to be made between a woman, or in this case a girl, and a medical professional. there are so many exception situations, mine is one that people go, oh, well, that is rare, but there are a lot of different rare circumstances, a variety of realities that women are facing, and so i don't believe that there is a blanket answer to if you are raped and become pregnant, you should or shouldn't have an abortion, but i think that the option needs to be there if that is in the best interests of the mother. the governor of alabama, kay ivey, who signed the ban has said it is a powerful testament to the deeply held belief that every life is precious and is a sacred gift from
god. how do you respond to that?” ama god. how do you respond to that?” am a christian, so i agree that every life is a gift from god. my challenge would be that the way this legislation would work treats unborn babies as i live sacred and doesn't treat girls like me, doesn't treat women who have a variety of medical conditions, doesn't treat anyone who has a right to their own body and make decisions about it as if our lives matter. and that is where it is inconsistent. they are not really pro—life, they are pro birth. shannon, thank you very much for joining us. thanks for having me. there's been an sharp rise in the number of cases of bowel cancer in adults under 50, with young people seeing the steepest increase, according to two separate new studies. although the total number of cases
still is low for 20—29 year olds, experts have urged doctors not to ignore symptoms in the young. researchers are not clear why the rise is happening but say obesity and poor diet could be factors. it is 20 to 29—year—olds who have seen the highest number, the sharpest rise in bowel cancer rates. let's speak now to jaimin patel, he has stage four bowel cancer and was originally diagnosed at the age of 30. and deborah alsina is the chief executive of bowel cancer uk. thank you both very much indeed for joining us, i am very sorry that you are obviously going through what you are obviously going through what you are going through. tell us when you discovered that you had it. so mine was when i was 30 and wasn't really thinking of it, i had symptoms for a while and thought it was something else. eventually went to the doctor's, god sent away for tests, didn't really follow anything up, and it was only my mother and wife
insisting that i went back again, got some new test done, and they found that there was quite prolific polyps in my large intestine, so i went through the situation of then having to deal with the whole diagnosis, which was a bit of a shock at that age. how long have you been dealing with it now? about six yea rs been dealing with it now? about six years now. and how are you now? at the moment fine, sort of carry on with life, but every section, every test co m es with life, but every section, every test comes up, you worry about the results, but a couple of times in the last few years i have had to go backin the last few years i have had to go back in for operations, remove parts of my liver and lungs. so why do you think there is days in trees, particularly in this group of 20 to 29—year—olds getting bowel cancer? —— why there is this increase. 29—year—olds getting bowel cancer? -- why there is this increase. we don't know the absolute answer to that, there are a number of
contributory factors, so for example there is a lot of talk about changes in all of ourdiet there is a lot of talk about changes in all of our diet and lifestyle, so increased amounts of fat within our food, but i don't think it is as simple as that, so i think we also have to be looking at, for example, changes in our gut bacteria, and certainly the research papers talk about increased use of antibiotics, but there are also other things within our environment that could be having an impact on the genetics, on our genetics, so what we really need to do is to study there much more closely so that we can identify who is most at risk and how to prevent bowel cancer occurring in the first place. so you think they could potentially be a link to overuse of antibiotics? certainly, the research papers mention it as a potential cause requiring further study. obviously, that will freak people
out, we have heard lots about the dangers of overusing antibiotics — it is not something that has been widely discussed. it is one potential cause, but i think we need to do more research to really pin that down. i think where the research is going at the moment is looking at in the changes microbe i am, so what is happening in our environment that is increasing they say in younger people? can it be picked up early with testing of what is going on in the garage? that is what they are hoping to find out, is it possible? firstly, could we identify better people who are at greatest risk, so families with known genetic conditions, people who have had an inflammatory bowel disease for over ten years or with a strong family history, and we don't know what that link is, but we think there might be. could we then link that stratification of people in with looking at the microbiome and
any other changes that might indicate that this individual is at greater risk? we have a long way to 90, greater risk? we have a long way to go, but it is really important that we are go, but it is really important that we are having the debate so that we can move towards finding answers and better identify bowel cancer earlier in younger people. thank you both very much, all the best with your ongoing treatment, thank you. bbc newsroom live is coming up next, thank you for your company today, see thank you for your company today, see you thank you for your company today, see you soon, thank you for your company today, see you soon, i hope you have a lovely day and a good weekend, bye— bye. it has been a much cloudier start to the day compared to recent days, some of that cloud has been quite interesting, look at this lovely wave pattern in the cloud here in south wales, nice cloud, also some
rain, which has been moving westwards a ci’oss rain, which has been moving westwards across england and wales, the first batch clearing, but sting quite cloudy across south wales and southern england this afternoon, drizzly outbreaks of rain. further north, sunny spells, up to 20 celsius here, but cooler elsewhere, particularly where you have got that cloud. through tonight, more rain spreading into scotland, showery outbreaks pushing into the east of england, overnight temperatures down to 9-11 england, overnight temperatures down to 9—11 celsius, not a cold night. through the weekend, remaining mixed, a lot of cloud, staying on the cool side, but sunny spells and showers. in the sunshine, not feeling too bad, temperatures on sunday potentially getting up to 20 celsius.
you're watching bbc newsroom live — it's11am and these are the main stories this morning: jeremy corbyn says his party's talks with the government to find a brexit compromise have gone as far as they can — blaming the government's weakness for their collapse. it comes as theresa may agrees to set a timetable for her to step down as prime minister, after the next commons vote on brexit in a few weeks' time. 100 people have died from knife wounds so far this year — the youngest victim was 14—year—old jaden moodie, from east london. for the first time in the uk, doctors have successfully used keyhole surgery to treat a baby with spina bifida inside womb. it was a very high risk pregnancy from the start anyway — through being told i couldn't have babies and everything.